[ausev] AusEV Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5
Rob Hirschfeld
Rob.Hirschfeld at novusedge.com
Thu Aug 3 20:40:36 GMT 2006
Hello All,
I've been lurking on the list for a few weeks and am glad to join the
crowd of newbies doing intros. I've been interested in electric cars
since for a long time: in fact, I'm getting deju vu from my 10 year
old's interest in them too. I'm very excited that the time seems to be
upon us.
I was impressed with both the WKTEC and the AustinEV display. This is a
very impressive group.
My background is primarily in software that controls other things.
Today I write building access control systems. In the past I've worked
on controls for robots, oil pipelines/platforms, injection molding, and
virtual servers.
QUESTION: I'm in the market for a new car (and don't have time to wait
for a conversion) - Does anyone have a suggestion for a hybrid? My
first pick has been the Honda Civic, but I don't know anyone who has
one. The Prius is a close second. I'd like to try get a PHEV option,
but don't want to kill the warranty on a new car. Thoughts?
Rob Hirschfeld
-----Original Message-----
From: ausev-bounces at austinev.org [mailto:ausev-bounces at austinev.org] On
Behalf Of ausev-request at austinev.org
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:27 PM
To: ausev at austinev.org
Subject: AusEV Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sustain-a-ball support (max schotz)
2. Re: Welcome newbies! (max schotz)
3. Re: sustain-a-ball support (Aaron Choate)
4. Re: This weekend? (Derek Bridges)
5. Re: This weekend? (Mark Farver)
6. Re: This weekend? (Chris Robison)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 06:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: max schotz <maxtheguitarist at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ausev] sustain-a-ball support
To: AustinEV announcements list <ausev at austinev.org>
Message-ID: <20060803130334.27313.qmail at web34409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
im new to the list. This may sound alittle silly, but im almost
clueless. What is the sustainable shopper's ball. Could i be notified on
what it is and when it might happen? That would be great. I am just
getting into electric cars, and I might try to do a conversion in the
next few years. see ya
chris Searles <admin at sustain-a-ball.org> wrote: Hi Chris -
I'm Chris from the Sustain-a-Ball. I missed you message, but will try to
call you back later this evening or tomorrow -
Thanks very much, looking forward to talking with you,
Sincerely -
Chris Searles, Coordinator
"The Sustainable Shopper's Ball!"
Austin's Outdoor Green Living Market
http://www.sustain-a-ball.org/
ph: 934-1387
--- Chris Robison wrote:
> I tried calling yesterday to talk to Chris Searles
> about logistics
> (scheduling, power available, etc) and left a
> message. I haven't gotten a
> call back.
>
> At any rate, I think it'd be a great idea.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> On Wed, August 2, 2006 9:56 am, Walter Hanagriff III
> said:
> > i saw the post from the sustain-a-ball
> coordinator, i actually was
> > considering asking if yall would be attending, all
> 3 events were
> > interesting, and i hope to see yall there also.
> > _______________________________________________
> > AusEV mailing list
> > AusEV at austinev.org
> > http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusEV mailing list
> AusEV at austinev.org
> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>
_______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 06:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: max schotz <maxtheguitarist at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ausev] Welcome newbies!
To: "Daniel J. Stewart" <dstewart at cortechs.com>, AustinEV
announcements list <ausev at austinev.org>
Message-ID: <20060803130706.55504.qmail at web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
i will definetly look forward to that. I hear that we are expecting the
technology to grow a lot in the next few years. If i could convert a car
with lithium ion batteries, i would be so happy.
"Daniel J. Stewart" <dstewart at cortechs.com> wrote: Just a quick note
from the "remote" AAEVA founding member - Welcome Walter and Maria!
It is an exciting time to be an electric vehicle enthusiast. There have
been remarkable changes in the field since we first "stood around in a
parking lot talking EVs" in 2001, but it is nothing compared to what is
happening right now. Whether it is the technology, environmental
issues, politics, or just the "EV-grin" that interests you, the next few
years promise great thrills for all.
Danny Stewart
-------Original Message-------
From: Maria Reyes
Subject: Re: [ausev] hi all, new here, introduction ahead
Sent: 02 Aug '06 11:22
Hello,
I am new to this also. I am new to Austin and I am amazed at how much
people are into the electric cars. I have been curious about it, but
could never find anyone else who was into it also, until now. I am a 22
yr. old college student and I am just elated to be a part of this group.
So, please keep me updated on the meetings.
On 8/2/06, Walter Hanagriff III <waltermh at gmail.com> wrote: Hi all,
You probably wont hear from me after this, but i wanted to ask a
question that confuses me.
First, i just saw the documentary Who killed the electric car.
Fascinating doc, i thought i knew alot about the tech but i still
learned alot. Always been interested in electric vehicles since i was a
teen. I even bought a Prius last year since i first learned about it
then, just wish i still had money to convert it with that kit i hear is
coming out.
I am 25 now, but i remember seeing tom hanks on jay leno? talking
about his electric car, and it sounded neat, though i didnt hear much
after that, being in louisiana. I am so excited to see that the concept
is alive, after moving to austin. So glad i recently moved here, and i
hope to go to a meeting sometime.
Which is the question, i noticed on your meetings page that you dont
have an august meeting, just curious why, though either ! way, i hope
to make the sept. meeting.
I also noticed there were no updates from august 2005 til now, is the
group still active, or just getting back on its feet?
what happens at the meeting?
guess thats it, also i noticed that yall were at the Fredericksburg
Renewable Energy Roundup and Green Living Fair in 2005, and apparently
before, does the group expect to be there again this year? maybe getting
ahead of myself, it being almost 2 months away, just curious.
ok, done now, cyall later
_______________________________________________
AusEV mailing list
AusEV at austinev.org
http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev!
--
Maria Reyes
---------------------------------
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:57:02 -0500
From: "Aaron Choate" <achoate at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ausev] sustain-a-ball support
To: "AustinEV announcements list" <ausev at austinev.org>
Message-ID:
<8fa91bfa0608030657k7b492121i6163e76562c097e8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Max,
The Sustainable Shopper's Ball is a free outdoor green living market
that is currently affiliated with the Sunset Valley Farmers Market.
The next one is on August 19. In case you are one of the new
additions to the list, AustinEV has been asked to show some of our
vehicles there and we are discussing how to make that happen.
More information can be found here:
<http://www.sustain-a-ball.org/>
Cheers,
Aaron Choate
On 8/3/06, max schotz <maxtheguitarist at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> im new to the list. This may sound alittle silly, but im almost
clueless. What is the sustainable shopper's ball. Could i be notified on
what it is and when it might happen? That would be great. I am just
getting into electric cars, and I might try to do a conversion in the
next few years. see ya
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 14:12:36 -0500
From: Derek Bridges <bridges at ieee.org>
Subject: Re: [ausev] This weekend?
To: AustinEV announcements list <ausev at austinev.org>
Message-ID: <44D24AA4.2010204 at ieee.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
What we learned at the first attempt to change out the battery pack
was the need to do our planning in some detail. We could take a shot at
removing the pack on Saturday if Roy can make arrangements with his
friend's shop before then but I would recommend that we meet on Sunday
strictly to do some detailed measurements, research and planning. It
would just suit my overly analytical, under achieving nature to wring
out the thinking and the talking before starting the lifting.
The thing that bothers me most is the danger associated with lifting
the truck several feet in the air then having people stoop under it to
do strenuous work dismantling the battery pack. Tall tripod jack stands
are available which have a range of about 55" to 83". If the shop with
the lift has these stands it would make things more nearly safe although
I'm still not crazy about the idea. I would prefer to find a way of
moving the still-loaded battery pack out from under the truck. The pack
is longer than the fore-aft distance between the tires so it would have
to come out from the front or rear. We could use the winch to pull it
out if it were on some casters or if it were on wooden blocks on some
kind of relatively low friction surface. Nylon slider pads on sheet
metal? If we built a dolly with 2 each, 200 lb rated casters under each
of the 6 battery pack hard points, we would basically be within the
caster ratings, not withstanding the heavier loads at the ends where the
batteries are stacked two high in the pack. If the dolly was on a flat
concrete floor that was long enough, we could then pull it out pretty
easily. Getting the pack and the truck aligned for re-assembly is a
whole nuther topic.
I also like the idea of raising the truck in Mark's garage where we
can take all the time we need. We could raise it incrementally and
place the tires on big blocks made of railroad ties or landscaping
timbers. Complicated and time consuming and maybe not even safe but I
find it appealing.
Which ever approach we use, we should take some measurements to
answer the following questions before lifting any thing.
1. Exactly how high does the truck need to be raised in order for
people to work under it? How tall are the batteries, how heavy are they
and how much vertical space is needed for disassembly?
2. Is there enough Horizontal room under the truck to place tall
jack stands and still not interfere with the battery pack or with people
working on it? Take into account the footprint of the jack stand and the
limited number of hard points where it could attach to the chassis or
axles.
3. How high does the truck need to be raised in order for the
battery pack to be dragged out from under it going out the rear? Going
out the front?
4. How much space is under the pack? Current thinking is to put
blocks (or a dolly) under the pack and deflate the tires enough to rest
the pack on the blocks.
From the budget-is-no-object department:
Here is a picture of a portable lift that does exactly what we need.
Wonder where we can rent one.
http://www.bencostuff.com/images/lifts/alm/we18-2.jpg
Here is a close up view.
http://www.bencostuff.com/images/lifts/alm/we18-1.jpg
Here is how we will end up doing the job.
http://www.bencostuff.com/images/past%20installs/large/Not%20a%20good%20
idea.jpg
I have seen the same picture posted elsewhere with the caption "Why
women live longer than men."
Lots to think about. Any comments? Suggested meeting time?
Derek Bridges
mark witt wrote:
> Hi all....well the batteries and the NGS tester have arrived at my
house.
> I'm still unwrapping them and charging them up. I am available both
Sat. and
> Sunday. Maybe we could drop the pack on Sat. and transfer the truck
and old
> batteries and case back to my house. On Sunday afternoon we could
gather in
> my garage to check everything out and see what we would need in
addition to
> what I have. I will post some info directly related to the "Ranger
> Reformation" project so everyone can see the fun we shall be having.
(Chris
> has seen it) I still have the truck loaded on the trailer from Sat.
night at
> the movies.(WKTEC) I'm working on a garage closer to my SE Austin
house but
> the NW Austin one that Roy lined up may be the one we use...Thoughts?
> I will be out of town from Aug. 11 maybe through Sat. the 19th..so
> getting the truck going for the Ball prob. wont happen but it would be
great
> to drive it around at the Roundup...Ranger Witt
>
>
>
>
>> From: "Chris Robison" <eeyore at phototropia.org>
>> Reply-To: eeyore at phototropia.org, AustinEV announcements list
>> <ausev at austinev.org>
>> To: ausev at austinev.org
>> Subject: [ausev] This weekend?
>> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:36:31 -0500 (CDT)
>>
>> It's looking like my garage is going to be closed this weekend, at
least
>> at the normal time on Saturday afternoon. I'm wondering if there's
some
>> alternative venues that might be open instead.
>>
>> As far as I know, the two projects nearest to being on the road right
now
>> are Mark Witt's electric Ranger (needs new battery retrofit, Witt has
the
>> parts!) and Erik Bigelow's Cabriolet.
>>
>> Either or both of these would be fantastic to have available for show
at
>> the Sustainable Shopper's Ball, and/or the Roundup in Fredericksburg.
Do
>> we have a possibility for a work session on these, or any other
vehicles
>> this weekend?
>>
>> I'll probably have some time on Sunday to pitch in...
>>
>> --chris
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusEV mailing list
>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AusEV mailing list
> AusEV at austinev.org
> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:21:16 -0500
From: Mark Farver <mfarver at mindbent.org>
Subject: Re: [ausev] This weekend?
To: AustinEV announcements list <ausev at austinev.org>
Message-ID: <44D25ABC.4070204 at mindbent.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Derek Bridges wrote:
> What we learned at the first attempt to change out the battery pack
>was the need to do our planning in some detail. We could take a shot at
>removing the pack on Saturday if Roy can make arrangements with his
>
>
I'd have to agree with Derek here. You want to do the work somewhere
where you are not under a time crunch so you can stop, step back, and
rethink if things are heading in an unsafe direction. You are welcome
to do the work in my garage. I think it removing the battery out from
under the truck will be required... installing cells while under the
truck will be backbreaking and likely unsafe.
Here is how I pictured doing it:
Lower the truck as much as possible while still retaining enough room
for a pallet jack under the battery box. This can be done by removing
tires, maybe dropping springs, and supporting the frame on short
jackstands. Jack the pallet jack enough to take the weight of the
battery. Unbolt the battery mounts and electrical connectors. Now
1300lbs lighter the truck can be lifted with the engine crane enough to
work the battery out from under the truck. My only worry is that there
would not be enough space under the lowered truck to unbolt the
battery. The truck can be raised and the pallet jack's height
increased, but this increases the height the truck needs to be lifted to
clear the pack. Without a pallet jack a strong frame of 2x4's and a
bunch of dolly wheels should work as Derek suggested.
Removing the bed on a Ranger is 6 bolts on the floor of the bed, and one
electrical connector. We can remove the bed to lighten the rear of the
truck and make the work area more accessible. This will require a few
people, since the bed is awkward and we don't want to scratch it.
Mark
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:26:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Chris Robison" <eeyore at phototropia.org>
Subject: Re: [ausev] This weekend?
To: "AustinEV announcements list" <ausev at austinev.org>
Message-ID: <40978.206.210.27.33.1154636811.squirrel at 206.210.27.33>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
I'm reminded of how we pulled the engine out of the MR2. We set the
engine down, and then used an engine hoist to lift the car. We then
slid
the engine out from under (it was set down on cardboard to make this
easier).
How about something like this? :
A) Start with the truck on the ground
B) Insert a palette jack from the side between the wheels, raising it to
support the pack
C) Place a set of supports (maybe just wooden blocks) under the pack so
it
will be supported just above the lowest height of the palette jack
D) Unbolt the pack from the truck and lower it with the palette jack
until
it's resting on the supports
E) Remove the palette jack
F) Roll the truck away to expose the pack, which is sitting on the
ground.
--chris
On Thu, August 3, 2006 2:12 pm, Derek Bridges said:
> What we learned at the first attempt to change out the battery
pack
> was the need to do our planning in some detail. We could take a shot
at
> removing the pack on Saturday if Roy can make arrangements with his
> friend's shop before then but I would recommend that we meet on Sunday
> strictly to do some detailed measurements, research and planning. It
> would just suit my overly analytical, under achieving nature to wring
> out the thinking and the talking before starting the lifting.
> The thing that bothers me most is the danger associated with
lifting
> the truck several feet in the air then having people stoop under it to
> do strenuous work dismantling the battery pack. Tall tripod jack
stands
> are available which have a range of about 55" to 83". If the shop with
> the lift has these stands it would make things more nearly safe
although
> I'm still not crazy about the idea. I would prefer to find a way of
> moving the still-loaded battery pack out from under the truck. The
pack
> is longer than the fore-aft distance between the tires so it would
have
> to come out from the front or rear. We could use the winch to pull it
> out if it were on some casters or if it were on wooden blocks on some
> kind of relatively low friction surface. Nylon slider pads on sheet
> metal? If we built a dolly with 2 each, 200 lb rated casters under
each
> of the 6 battery pack hard points, we would basically be within the
> caster ratings, not withstanding the heavier loads at the ends where
the
> batteries are stacked two high in the pack. If the dolly was on a flat
> concrete floor that was long enough, we could then pull it out pretty
> easily. Getting the pack and the truck aligned for re-assembly is a
> whole nuther topic.
> I also like the idea of raising the truck in Mark's garage where
we
> can take all the time we need. We could raise it incrementally and
> place the tires on big blocks made of railroad ties or landscaping
> timbers. Complicated and time consuming and maybe not even safe but I
> find it appealing.
>
> Which ever approach we use, we should take some measurements to
> answer the following questions before lifting any thing.
> 1. Exactly how high does the truck need to be raised in order for
> people to work under it? How tall are the batteries, how heavy are
they
> and how much vertical space is needed for disassembly?
> 2. Is there enough Horizontal room under the truck to place tall
> jack stands and still not interfere with the battery pack or with
people
> working on it? Take into account the footprint of the jack stand and
the
> limited number of hard points where it could attach to the chassis or
> axles.
> 3. How high does the truck need to be raised in order for the
> battery pack to be dragged out from under it going out the rear? Going
> out the front?
> 4. How much space is under the pack? Current thinking is to put
> blocks (or a dolly) under the pack and deflate the tires enough to
rest
> the pack on the blocks.
>
> From the budget-is-no-object department:
> Here is a picture of a portable lift that does exactly what we need.
> Wonder where we can rent one.
> http://www.bencostuff.com/images/lifts/alm/we18-2.jpg
>
> Here is a close up view.
> http://www.bencostuff.com/images/lifts/alm/we18-1.jpg
>
> Here is how we will end up doing the job.
>
http://www.bencostuff.com/images/past%20installs/large/Not%20a%20good%20
idea.jpg
> I have seen the same picture posted elsewhere with the caption "Why
> women live longer than men."
>
> Lots to think about. Any comments? Suggested meeting time?
>
> Derek Bridges
>
>
>
> mark witt wrote:
>> Hi all....well the batteries and the NGS tester have arrived at my
>> house.
>> I'm still unwrapping them and charging them up. I am available both
Sat.
>> and
>> Sunday. Maybe we could drop the pack on Sat. and transfer the truck
and
>> old
>> batteries and case back to my house. On Sunday afternoon we could
gather
>> in
>> my garage to check everything out and see what we would need in
addition
>> to
>> what I have. I will post some info directly related to the "Ranger
>> Reformation" project so everyone can see the fun we shall be having.
>> (Chris
>> has seen it) I still have the truck loaded on the trailer from Sat.
>> night at
>> the movies.(WKTEC) I'm working on a garage closer to my SE Austin
house
>> but
>> the NW Austin one that Roy lined up may be the one we use...Thoughts?
>> I will be out of town from Aug. 11 maybe through Sat. the
19th..so
>> getting the truck going for the Ball prob. wont happen but it would
be
>> great
>> to drive it around at the Roundup...Ranger Witt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: "Chris Robison" <eeyore at phototropia.org>
>>> Reply-To: eeyore at phototropia.org, AustinEV announcements list
>>> <ausev at austinev.org>
>>> To: ausev at austinev.org
>>> Subject: [ausev] This weekend?
>>> Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:36:31 -0500 (CDT)
>>>
>>> It's looking like my garage is going to be closed this weekend, at
>>> least
>>> at the normal time on Saturday afternoon. I'm wondering if there's
>>> some
>>> alternative venues that might be open instead.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, the two projects nearest to being on the road
right
>>> now
>>> are Mark Witt's electric Ranger (needs new battery retrofit, Witt
has
>>> the
>>> parts!) and Erik Bigelow's Cabriolet.
>>>
>>> Either or both of these would be fantastic to have available for
show
>>> at
>>> the Sustainable Shopper's Ball, and/or the Roundup in
Fredericksburg.
>>> Do
>>> we have a possibility for a work session on these, or any other
>>> vehicles
>>> this weekend?
>>>
>>> I'll probably have some time on Sunday to pitch in...
>>>
>>> --chris
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AusEV mailing list
>>> AusEV at austinev.org
>>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusEV mailing list
>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> AusEV mailing list
> AusEV at austinev.org
> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>
------------------------------
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AusEV mailing list
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http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
End of AusEV Digest, Vol 7, Issue 5
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