[ausev] "Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense"

[Clendon Gibson]

Has anyone heard of the company on the east coast that is taking turkey offal and producing 'crude' oil? It is apparently based on pressure and heat. The last I checked they where selling their product to local power plants. 

While this still presents the issue of engine exhaust, it is renewable and domestic.

Are there known problems with this technology?

----- Original Message ----
From: "jefoy at mindspring.com" <jefoy at mindspring.com>
To: AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion <ausev at austinev.org>; ausev at austinev.org
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 12:02:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ausev] "Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense"



It is one more argument against hydrogen..

 

I wouldn't want to see us rely too heavily on shale oil either. It does nothing to reduce CO2 emissions and even though there is energy there, it will not be cheap to produce. 

 

Look again at the section where they are not refining the output, due to the complex nature of gasoline, it is highly unlikely that a single substance can replace 7 grades of fuel. I believe the stuff they are testing in military vehicles is a replacement for diesel, not gasoline. Diesel engines are much better suited to alternative fuel use and I have seen a recent report similar to what you are refering to that talks about synthetic fuel made from coal that is a replacement for diesel fuel. It is similar to technology the Germans used in WWII to fuel their tanks since they have little natural oil reserves.

The real issue is they are simply trading one fossil fuel for another.

Jack


-----Original Message----- 
From: Charlesvsi at aol.com 
Sent: Dec 15, 2006 9:41 AM 
To: ausev at austinev.org 
Subject: Re: [ausev] "Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense" 




On Hydrogen who will ever allow a fill-up station in their neighborhood, one explosion, and the program will be dead. 

The Department of Defense is working on a program to replace the 7 different grades of petroleum fuel with one that can be made cheaply with essentially no refining from the output of oil shale recovery process. Their maps show enough  reserves in the US to be totally independent of other sources. The program started in '02, is beginning testing in military vehicles soon, etc. 

I have a large power point presentation showing the entire program, sent to me by son-in law who works in military mfg. company. Not secure document. 

Coincidently we have a friend who is working on PHD in oil recovery and cleanup, doing internship for Shell oil in oil shale recovery, he agrees there is enough deposits to fuel the US for years. . 

 

If anyone wants to see it, let me know, I think I can find it and attach it to e-mail, probably will be zipped or something, However very interesting, I don't know why Government is not telling us about this energy future program?? . 

Chuck 

charlesvsi at aol.com

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In a message dated 12/14/2006 9:07:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, Gil at Gil.Dawson.name writes:



At 12:00 P -0600 12/13/06, Erik Bigelow wrote:
>What Hydrogen is lacking is a reason for being used
>at all.

Perhaps, after most of the oil is gone, it might prove viable for 
long-distance trucking.  And trains.

--Gil

P.S.  And ships and airplanes.

I guess ships can go back to sails.

Has anyone thought how airplanes might fly without petroleum?

Paul MacReady's Aerovironment built a solar-powered airplane that 
flew above 80,000 feet continuously for nearly a month.  They're now 
packaging it for the military and claiming 65,000 feet altitude, 1000 
pound payload and 6KW excess power.  In his prototype he chose to use 
a closed water/hydrogen/fuel cell cycle to fly at night because 
batteries weighed too much.  His polymer hydrogen storage tank 
weighed less than a pound.  They don't say how the military version 
is powered, but its flight duration is only a week, so it might not 
be solar.

Gliders might work, if we can figure a way to detect updrafts from 
afar.  They are quite efficient, but their performance is sporadic, 
depending upon the skill of the pilot to locate rising air.  They 
don't work very well at night.

--Gil
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Chuck Simms
Director, North Austin M.U.District #1
e-mail: charlesvsi at aol.com
Phone: 512-331-9630
Cell: 505-331-1237
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