[ausev] "Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense"

Fri Dec 15 22:03:02 GMT 2006

Yeah, the companys called KFC.  You're misinformed about the
turkeys though; they do it with chickens (supposedly)
instead.

(OK, sorry about that, I couldn't resist.  I hope you got a
good laugh).

I have heard of methanol from chicken menure - that pratice
is well established.  I have also heard of methane
reclaimation from land fills.  This is a new one to me.

> Has anyone heard of the company on the east coast that is
> taking turkey offal and producing 'crude' oil? It is
> apparently based on pressure and heat. The last I checked
> they where selling their product to local power plants.
>
> While this still presents the issue of engine exhaust, it
> is renewable and domestic.
>
> Are there known problems with this technology?
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "jefoy at mindspring.com" <jefoy at mindspring.com>
> To: AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion
> <ausev at austinev.org>; ausev at austinev.org Sent: Friday,
> December 15, 2006 12:02:57 PM Subject: Re: [ausev] "Why a
> hydrogen economy doesn't make sense"
>
>
>
> It is one more argument against hydrogen..
>
>
>
> I wouldn't want to see us rely too heavily on shale oil
> either. It does nothing to reduce CO2 emissions and even
> though there is energy there, it will not be cheap to
> produce.
>
>
>
> Look again at the section where they are not refining the
> output, due to the complex nature of gasoline, it is
> highly unlikely that a single substance can replace 7
> grades of fuel. I believe the stuff they are testing in
> military vehicles is a replacement for diesel, not
> gasoline. Diesel engines are much better suited to
> alternative fuel use and I have seen a recent report
> similar to what you are refering to that talks about
> synthetic fuel made from coal that is a replacement for
> diesel fuel. It is similar to technology the Germans used
> in WWII to fuel their tanks since they have little natural
> oil reserves.
>
> The real issue is they are simply trading one fossil fuel
> for another.
>
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charlesvsi at aol.com
> Sent: Dec 15, 2006 9:41 AM
> To: ausev at austinev.org
> Subject: Re: [ausev] "Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make
> sense"
>
>
>
>
> On Hydrogen who will ever allow a fill-up station in their
> neighborhood, on e explosion, and the program will be
> dead.
>
> The Department of Defense is working on a program to
> replace the 7 different grades of petroleum fuel with one
> that can be made cheaply with essentially no refining from
> the output of oil shale recovery process. Their maps show
> enough  reserves in the US to be totally independent of
> other sources. The program started in '02, is beginning
> testing in military vehicles soon, etc.
>
> I have a large power point presentation showing the entire
> program, sent to me by son-in law who works in military
> mfg. company. Not secure document.
>
> Coincidently we have a friend who is working on PHD in oil
> recovery and cleanup, doing internship for Shell oil in
> oil shale recovery, he agrees there is enough deposits to
> fuel the US for years. .
>
>
>
> If anyone wants to see it, let me know, I think I can find
> it and attach it to e-mail, probably will be zipped or
> something, However very interesting, I don't know why
> Government is not telling us about this energy future
> program?? .
>
> Chuck
>
> charlesvsi at aol.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> In a message dated 12/14/2006 9:07:29 P.M. Central
> Standard Time, Gil at Gil.Dawson.name writes:
>
>
>
> At 12:00 P -0600 12/13/06, Erik Bigelow wrote:
> >What Hydrogen is lacking is a reason for being used
> >at all.
>
> Perhaps, after most of the oil is gone, it might prove
> viable for  long-distance trucking.  And trains.
>
> --Gil
>
> P.S.  And ships and airplanes.
>
> I guess ships can go back to sails.
>
> Has anyone thought how airplanes might fly without
> petroleum?
>
> Paul MacReady's Aerovironment built a solar-powered
> airplane that  flew above 80,000 feet continuously for
> nearly a month.  They're now  packaging it for the
> military and claiming 65,000 feet altitude, 1000  pound
>  payload and 6KW excess power.  In his prototype he chose
> to use  a closed water/hydrogen/fuel cell cycle to fly at
> night because  batteries weighed too much.  His polymer
> hydrogen storage tank  weighed less than a pound.  They
> don't say how the military version  is powered, but its
> flight duration is only a week, so it might not  be solar.
>
> Gliders might work, if we can figure a way to detect
> updrafts from  afar.  They are quite efficient, but their
> performance is sporadic,  depending upon the skill of the
> pilot to locate rising air.  They  don't work very well at
> night.
>
> --Gil
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>
>
>
>
> Chuck Simms
> Director, North Austin M.U.District #1
> e-mail: charlesvsi at aol.com
> Phone: 512-331-9630
> Cell: 505-331-1237
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