[ausev] Series hybrids, article link
Charlesvsi at aol.com
Charlesvsi at aol.com
Tue Dec 4 16:25:45 GMT 2007
Sorry, here is the web link ,
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_hybrid#Series_hybrid_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_hybrid#Series_hybrid) .
Chuck S.
In a message dated 12/4/2007 9:23:55 A.M. Central Standard Time,
careyking1 at gmail.com writes:
Thanks for all comments on series vs. parallel hybrids.
In terms of the discussion not being simple - what I am particularly
interested in is a complex discussion in some kind of journal paper or
something similar. Being more energy efficient (due to a motor running
at constant speed) for a series hybrid but having to figure a way not to
have a trailer carrying the generator quite a design tradeoff and the
basics of the argument. Not having to size a generator as precisely to
limit power demand for a parallel hybrid is an advantage that might
outweigh higher efficiency. It would be interesting to see how each
design concept has become more feasible over time and what the limiting
design factors are going forward. The fact that parallel hybrids
already exist on the road in a mass manufacturing sense can't be because
they have no advantages.
Carey
Charlesvsi at aol.com wrote:
> It's not quite as simple as series and parallel, because the power
> train structure and computer control programming enter into the
> discussion.
> For a great overview of Hybrid Vehicle Drivetrain, go to Wikipedia,
> the free encyclopedia (redirected from Series Hybrid).
>
> Our ''04 Honda Civic Hybrid is another example of a power
> assist hybrid. The programming does not allow electric only driving,
> but with the CVT (continuously Variable Transmission) the computer
> controls the speed of the gas engine, the ratio of the transmission
> and amount of electric motor boost. Ours 1.4 liter gas engine runs at
> 3000 rpm most of the time, at highest efficient speed providing 44
> mpg. When climbing hills in cruise control on, the electric drive
> starts to help hold the speed of 73.5 and then the rpm goes up
> providing more gas engine power, transmission is changing ratio to
> hold the speed. On Montana mountains on I 90, steep incline it still
> holds 73.5 mph but rpm goes up to 4500 while we pass the trucks etc.
> going over the hill. Going down the other side the automatic
> regenerative braking charges the large batteries getting ready for
> next hill.
>
> ps, we get 36 mpg in town usually, and over 40 mpg on most highway
> driving not in mountains.
>
> The components of gas engine, electric motor, transmission, and
> computer programming determine the performance and the mileage at any
> given moment.
>
> Chuck S.
>
> In a message dated 12/3/2007 9:09:43 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> jpenry at texrocks.com writes:
>
> The series Hybrid would be more efficient, from the documentation
> I have
> found.
> Using fuel to generate electricity is more efficient than an ICE
> engine.
> Parallel only uses the electric up to 30 or so mph, then the gas
> engine
> takes over, so they are only using the electric for the power in
> lower
> speeds, and letting the ICE take over when only 60 or 70 hp are
> needed.
>
> I believe a series hybrid would get much more mpg than a
> parallel. Think
> locomotives.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carey King" <careyking1 at gmail.com>
> To: "AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion"
> <ausev at austinev.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [ausev] Series hybrids
>
>
> > Does anyone have a basic Pro and Con description/comparison of
> parallel
> > versus series hybrids?
> >
> > I kind of thought myself that the reason Chevy Volt is going for the
> > series is that Toyota must hold most of the patents on the parallel
> > versions, not that the series is inherently any better. But I really
> > don't know of the advantages and disadvantages of each.
> >
> > carey
> >
> > John Penry at Texrocks wrote:
> >> Somehow, GM thinks that they can produce a series hybrid in the
> Volt.
> >> Maybe
> >> the Volt is what the software industry calls "Vaporware"????
> So far, the
> >> youtube videos show it to be smoke and mirrors.
> >>
> >> I have run across many stories of people who have created "home
> made"
> >> series
> >> hybrids -- such as the one about using a turbine engine to power a
> >> Hummer,
> >> and getting 60 to 80 mpg.
> >>
> >> With a 72 mile round trip daily, and no way to charge up, it
> looks like I
> >> may have to keep my 31 mpg Honda.
> >>
> >> If someone can build a series hybrid, I would buy it. i think
> they would
> >> easily get 60 to 80 mpg, and could even be powered by renewable
> fuels.
> >>
> >> John in Seguin
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Christopher Robison" <chris at ohmbre.org>
> >> To: <ausev at austinev.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:54 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [ausev] Series hybrids
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:26 -0600, John Penry at Texrocks wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for the information. I have a 36 mile trip each way
> to work,
> >>>> and
> >>>> no
> >>>> way to plug in while at work.
> >>>> I was thinking that creating a series hybrid similar to the
> GM Volt,
> >>>> would
> >>>> be easier to do using a pickup, and I had thought that the engine
> >>>> compartment could be used to place a motor from a motorcycle,
> >>>> snowmobile,
> >>>> or
> >>>> small diesel. After going by and taking a look at the Ford
> Rangers on
> >>>> display this weekend, I'm beginning to wonder where all that
> electronic
> >>>> stuff is going to go.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have read the work on the AC Propulsion Long Ranger, and
> thought that
> >>>> it
> >>>> could go under the hood, and the batteries - only needing a
> 40 mile
> >>>> range
> >>>> there would be a savings in weight and space required for the
> >>>> batteries,
> >>>> and
> >>>> that could be used for the generator. Maybe I'll have to
> wait for some
> >>>> of
> >>>> the electronics to get miniaturized.
> >>>>
> >>> The electronics are not really your problem. Based on lead-acid, a
> >>> typical conversion filled with batteries with no space for a
> generator,
> >>> usually gets about 35-40 miles.
> >>>
> >>> Using lithium (at 10 times the price for the same energy capacity)
> >>> reduces required volume for the same energy by at least half,
> and weight
> >>> by a factor of 4 or more. This would allow room for the
> generator, but
> >>> probably not one large enough to allow arbitrary range (just
> guessing
> >>> here) if you're limited to options available off the shelf today.
> >>>
> >>> The only way to do this in a small/light enough package is
> with a small
> >>> engine running at very high RPMs (as the Long Ranger did) and a
> >>> generator head capable of generating the appropriate voltage
> at that
> >>> speed. As I understand ACP used their (very expensive) AC150
> motor for
> >>> that purpose. I have no idea what the Long Ranger sounded
> like, but I'm
> >>> going to bet that it screamed, and would not last long in
> normal use.
> >>> High power density in a generator is a pretty tough nut to
> crack. That
> >>> Ossa manages it with diesel in under 600 pounds is pretty
> impressive in
> >>> my opinion, but that's still over 15 cubic feet.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Christopher Robison
> >>> chris at ohmbre.org
> >>> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> AusEV mailing list
> >>> AusEV at austinev.org
> >>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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> >
>
>
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>
> /Chuck Simms/
> Director, North Austin M.U.District #1
> e-mail: charlesvsi at aol.com
> Phone: 512-331-9630
> Cell: 505-331-1237
>
>
>
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Cell: 505-331-1237
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