[ausev] Series hybrids
John Penry at Texrocks
jpenry at texrocks.com
Tue Dec 4 23:48:53 GMT 2007
SWRI in San Antonio did some analysis. Interesting to see their cost
analysis when gas was "only" $1.65 per gallon.
http://www.swri.org/4org/d03/vehsys/presPDFs/5Engine%20China%20HEV%20Laptop_rev%2002.pdf
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carey King" <careyking1 at gmail.com>
To: "AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion"
<ausev at austinev.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ausev] Series hybrids
> Thanks for all comments on series vs. parallel hybrids.
>
> In terms of the discussion not being simple - what I am particularly
> interested in is a complex discussion in some kind of journal paper or
> something similar. Being more energy efficient (due to a motor running
> at constant speed) for a series hybrid but having to figure a way not to
> have a trailer carrying the generator quite a design tradeoff and the
> basics of the argument. Not having to size a generator as precisely to
> limit power demand for a parallel hybrid is an advantage that might
> outweigh higher efficiency. It would be interesting to see how each
> design concept has become more feasible over time and what the limiting
> design factors are going forward. The fact that parallel hybrids
> already exist on the road in a mass manufacturing sense can't be because
> they have no advantages.
>
> Carey
>
> Charlesvsi at aol.com wrote:
>> It's not quite as simple as series and parallel, because the power
>> train structure and computer control programming enter into the
>> discussion.
>> For a great overview of Hybrid Vehicle Drivetrain, go to Wikipedia,
>> the free encyclopedia (redirected from Series Hybrid).
>>
>> Our ''04 Honda Civic Hybrid is another example of a power
>> assist hybrid. The programming does not allow electric only driving,
>> but with the CVT (continuously Variable Transmission) the computer
>> controls the speed of the gas engine, the ratio of the transmission
>> and amount of electric motor boost. Ours 1.4 liter gas engine runs at
>> 3000 rpm most of the time, at highest efficient speed providing 44
>> mpg. When climbing hills in cruise control on, the electric drive
>> starts to help hold the speed of 73.5 and then the rpm goes up
>> providing more gas engine power, transmission is changing ratio to
>> hold the speed. On Montana mountains on I 90, steep incline it still
>> holds 73.5 mph but rpm goes up to 4500 while we pass the trucks etc.
>> going over the hill. Going down the other side the automatic
>> regenerative braking charges the large batteries getting ready for
>> next hill.
>>
>> ps, we get 36 mpg in town usually, and over 40 mpg on most highway
>> driving not in mountains.
>>
>> The components of gas engine, electric motor, transmission, and
>> computer programming determine the performance and the mileage at any
>> given moment.
>>
>> Chuck S.
>>
>> In a message dated 12/3/2007 9:09:43 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> jpenry at texrocks.com writes:
>>
>> The series Hybrid would be more efficient, from the documentation
>> I have
>> found.
>> Using fuel to generate electricity is more efficient than an ICE
>> engine.
>> Parallel only uses the electric up to 30 or so mph, then the gas
>> engine
>> takes over, so they are only using the electric for the power in
>> lower
>> speeds, and letting the ICE take over when only 60 or 70 hp are
>> needed.
>>
>> I believe a series hybrid would get much more mpg than a
>> parallel. Think
>> locomotives.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Carey King" <careyking1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion"
>> <ausev at austinev.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [ausev] Series hybrids
>>
>>
>> > Does anyone have a basic Pro and Con description/comparison of
>> parallel
>> > versus series hybrids?
>> >
>> > I kind of thought myself that the reason Chevy Volt is going for
>> the
>> > series is that Toyota must hold most of the patents on the parallel
>> > versions, not that the series is inherently any better. But I
>> really
>> > don't know of the advantages and disadvantages of each.
>> >
>> > carey
>> >
>> > John Penry at Texrocks wrote:
>> >> Somehow, GM thinks that they can produce a series hybrid in the
>> Volt.
>> >> Maybe
>> >> the Volt is what the software industry calls "Vaporware"????
>> So far, the
>> >> youtube videos show it to be smoke and mirrors.
>> >>
>> >> I have run across many stories of people who have created "home
>> made"
>> >> series
>> >> hybrids -- such as the one about using a turbine engine to power a
>> >> Hummer,
>> >> and getting 60 to 80 mpg.
>> >>
>> >> With a 72 mile round trip daily, and no way to charge up, it
>> looks like I
>> >> may have to keep my 31 mpg Honda.
>> >>
>> >> If someone can build a series hybrid, I would buy it. i think
>> they would
>> >> easily get 60 to 80 mpg, and could even be powered by renewable
>> fuels.
>> >>
>> >> John in Seguin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Christopher Robison" <chris at ohmbre.org>
>> >> To: <ausev at austinev.org>
>> >> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 5:54 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [ausev] Series hybrids
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:26 -0600, John Penry at Texrocks wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Thanks for the information. I have a 36 mile trip each way
>> to work,
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> no
>> >>>> way to plug in while at work.
>> >>>> I was thinking that creating a series hybrid similar to the
>> GM Volt,
>> >>>> would
>> >>>> be easier to do using a pickup, and I had thought that the
>> engine
>> >>>> compartment could be used to place a motor from a motorcycle,
>> >>>> snowmobile,
>> >>>> or
>> >>>> small diesel. After going by and taking a look at the Ford
>> Rangers on
>> >>>> display this weekend, I'm beginning to wonder where all that
>> electronic
>> >>>> stuff is going to go.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I have read the work on the AC Propulsion Long Ranger, and
>> thought that
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> could go under the hood, and the batteries - only needing a
>> 40 mile
>> >>>> range
>> >>>> there would be a savings in weight and space required for the
>> >>>> batteries,
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> that could be used for the generator. Maybe I'll have to
>> wait for some
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> the electronics to get miniaturized.
>> >>>>
>> >>> The electronics are not really your problem. Based on lead-acid,
>> a
>> >>> typical conversion filled with batteries with no space for a
>> generator,
>> >>> usually gets about 35-40 miles.
>> >>>
>> >>> Using lithium (at 10 times the price for the same energy
>> capacity)
>> >>> reduces required volume for the same energy by at least half,
>> and weight
>> >>> by a factor of 4 or more. This would allow room for the
>> generator, but
>> >>> probably not one large enough to allow arbitrary range (just
>> guessing
>> >>> here) if you're limited to options available off the shelf today.
>> >>>
>> >>> The only way to do this in a small/light enough package is
>> with a small
>> >>> engine running at very high RPMs (as the Long Ranger did) and a
>> >>> generator head capable of generating the appropriate voltage
>> at that
>> >>> speed. As I understand ACP used their (very expensive) AC150
>> motor for
>> >>> that purpose. I have no idea what the Long Ranger sounded
>> like, but I'm
>> >>> going to bet that it screamed, and would not last long in
>> normal use.
>> >>> High power density in a generator is a pretty tough nut to
>> crack. That
>> >>> Ossa manages it with diesel in under 600 pounds is pretty
>> impressive in
>> >>> my opinion, but that's still over 15 cubic feet.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Christopher Robison
>> >>> chris at ohmbre.org
>> >>> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> AusEV mailing list
>> >>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> >>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> AusEV mailing list
>> >> AusEV at austinev.org
>> >> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>> >>
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > AusEV mailing list
>> > AusEV at austinev.org
>> > http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusEV mailing list
>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>
>>
>> /Chuck Simms/
>> Director, North Austin M.U.District #1
>> e-mail: charlesvsi at aol.com
>> Phone: 512-331-9630
>> Cell: 505-331-1237
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
>> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001>
>> and top money wasters
>> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002>
>> of 2007.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AusEV mailing list
>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> AusEV mailing list
> AusEV at austinev.org
> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>
>
More information about the AusEV
mailing list