[ausev] Wheel motors, was Re: Toyota Landcruiser conversion
Aaron Richardson
aaron at planetrichardson.net
Wed Feb 14 22:40:32 GMT 2007
The PAX run-flat wheel that comes on the Honda Odyssey touring edition
weighs ~75lbs per wheel!! I have not noticed any unusual handling
issues driving this van, although I have not driven the non-PAX version
to compare against. Some people on the web have changed out to non-PAX
tires (weighing it at around 50lbs) and notice handling changes. I
would imagine that you can add alot of extra weight to the wheel without
creating serious issues. It probably causes more of a problem in the
efficiency and acceleration area than anything else.
Aaron Richardson
On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 15:31 -0600, Ian Ward wrote:
> I spoke to a Lotus engineer at NADA that has been involved in the
> design concept they are working on for ZAP, and he said that the
> difference in unsprung weight between the ice version of the car with
> performance disc breaks and the hub motors made by PML Flightlink
> (also used on the Mini conversion they did) is only about 14 lbs.
> Granted, any increase in unsprung weight can impact handling, but this
> easily falls within the weight difference between a performance wheel
> and stock wheel. I'm still skeptical of this claim, but until I do
> the research and add up the numbers, I can't be too critical. There
> is certainly a lot of weight in big performance discs, calipers,
> bolts, lugs and bearings, so maybe it isn't such an outrageous claim.
>
> You are still correct, though - this is not a project for a hobbyist.
> The complexity of the controller(s) for all wheel drive that takes
> turning, slippage and traction control into consideration is more than
> I would feel confident taking on.
>
> On 2/14/07, Christopher Robison <eeyore at phototropia.org> wrote:
> I think wheel motors are an interesting idea, but they present
> some
> problems for someone building an EV.
>
> First is availability. They're not really an off-the-shelf
> component
> that we can easily just go out and buy from companies like EV
> Parts and
> KTA, like normal EV motors.
>
> More importantly however, is the handling problems they cause.
> By having
> that much mass in your wheels, it becomes very difficult to
> keep the
> wheels planted on a bumpy road surface at high speeds. A wheel
> that's up
> in the air after a bump at any particular moment is a wheel
> that can't
> help with traction, cornering or braking. Google for the
> phrase
> "unsprung weight" and you'll find a lot of discussion about
> this issue.
>
> There are some current efforts to develop practical vehicles
> based on
> wheel motors and ultimately I think it could be a very good
> idea, but I
> don't believe it's a practical alternative for people doing
> their own
> garage conversions today.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 09:49 -0800, Clendon Gibson wrote:
> > Perhaps this would be a good vehicle to use wheel mounted
> electric motors in? Would that not do away with the 4WD
> transmission issue?
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Christopher Robison <eeyore at phototropia.org>
> > To: AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion <
> ausev at austinev.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:29:13 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ausev] Toyota Landcruiser conversion
> >
> > This could be a really fun project. I think the older
> jeep-style FJ40
> > Land Cruisers were a lot cooler than the current behemoth
> luxury SUVs
> > under the same name. A bit of attitude they're trying to
> bring back with
> > the FJ Cruiser. You probably won't find any OEM parts for
> it, but the
> > old style Land Cruisers have enough of a fan base that there
> are
> > companies making replacement parts. This typically means
> they'll be
> > available, but expensive.
> >
> > The reality is that your two questions answer each other.
> Whether or not
> > your conversion will be able to keep up with traffic depends
> greatly on
> > how much money you have to spend on it. Plan your budget
> starting at
> > about $10k for the conversion, but more if you want to
> maintain any of
> > the FJ's capabilities in off-roading etc.
> >
> > A couple things learned for certain in Nick's Cherokee
> conversion.
> > First, having a boxy vehicle with a lot of frontal area
> makes it more
> > difficult to have decent range. Second, keeping the 4wd
> parts (transfer
> > case, front driveshaft and axle) makes it even worse.
> >
> > How far is your commute? Would you be able to plug in at
> work? If
> > you're doing mostly 40-50mph, your range will be noticeably
> better than
> > having to drive 60-65.
> >
> > Bottom line: this conversion won't be cheap to do, as you
> have many
> > factors working against you: Weight, aerodynamics, obscure
> and expensive
> > parts, inefficient 4WD drivetrain. However, it would be a
> really cool
> > vehicle when complete, if enough money is spent to do it
> right.
> >
> > --chris
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 16:13 -0600, charles winningham
> wrote:
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I am an aspiring electric car owner who has come into the
> opportunity
> > > to purchase a 1983 Toyota Landcruiser for next to
> nothing. I would
> > > like to buy it and convert it to electric for the purpose
> of being a
> > > commuter car but I have some concerns and I do not know
> exactly how
> > > much it would cost to do a competent conversion of this
> particular
> > > model.
> > >
> > > My main concerns are 1) will it be able to keep up with
> the speed of
> > > traffic on my commute? (does not include freeway driving
> but does
> > > include a short stretch of driving on the access road to
> MOPAC) 2) how
> > > much will it cost? (any range, however appoximate, would
> help)
> > >
> > > Thank you all for making this community happen. It's
> awesome to have
> > > something that actually enables me to do something about
> how much I
> > > hate driving a petroleum-fed car.
> > >
> > > Charles Winningham
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
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