[ausev] A/C, Mostly available now.

Sat Jun 23 17:47:32 GMT 2007

Under the vein of It's great to lament about what we don't have now. 

For immediate use, on the market now are hundreds of lightly used '04 Honda  
Civic Hybrids. Ours was new in '04, has 50000 miles on it, gets 36 mpg in 
town,  on highway 38 if 75 mph, and 44 mpg if 73 mph in cruise control. Goes over 
500  miles on 13 gallons of gas. 
Hondas are :Covered by factory warranty to 30k miles + 80,000 miles on  
Hybrid system, but if used purchase at a Honda Dealer, you can get  the  extended 
warranty from Honda for $800 if you haggle a bit, It is a compact 4  door, with 
deluxe interior& radio, AC is super, and it costs 1/2 as much to  drive most 
other vehicles. Lease owners are turning them in now and there are  lots of 
them in dealers with all maintenance records etc. 
We just bought an '04 Odyssey van with overdrive 6 speed transmission to  
replace Dodge minivan for hauling and large groups etc. . I'll go with you to  
shop for Civic Hybrid, Being retired has its benefits. Yes, we are members of  
Austin EV and will have solar panels soon and Plug in EV when available. Not  
holding my breath, sorry that is reality now. 

What are you waiting for, you can get Immediate gas cost savings by  1/2,  a 
zero emissions small engine, comfortable and safe driving, NOW  you can be 
proud of doing your part, while the rest of the U.S.  catches up to you.
Chuck   

In a message dated 6/21/2007 10:03:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
csorenson1 at austin.rr.com writes:

It's  great to lament about what we don't have right now, "an EV or  other
alternative that goes as far as we want as fast as we want."  We  have become
pretty spoiled.  No insult intended, I really miss all of  the atributes of
my Ford Escape.  But, I am happy to find out that I  have the choice to drive
a vehicle with no emissions if I want, as much of  my time as I possibly can,
and then use the ICE for the rest.  Until a  few months ago, I didn't even
know that cars like mine existed (besides the  EV1).  I thought the only EV's
left were conversions.  I am  finding more and more factory made EV's that
are still being restored,  bought, maintained, and driven (on the streets and
on the freeway).   They may have destroyed the EV1, but they didn't destroy
all the others  that are still out there.  So, that just doubled my choices.
I am in  the process of buying another factory made EV.  I am as happy with  a
conversion as a factory made EV, but I just don't have the time to work  on a
conversion.  I finally don't have to wait for "some day," when I  finally
realized I can make a difference now.  All I see on the news  is that
"Electric (or some other alternative fule) is the future."  So  we wait and
wait for something to happen, what a joke.  I just wrote  an article to the
New York Times and challenged them to give as much  coverage to the EV's that
are currently on the road as to those that might  be on the road "some day."
The Electric Auto Association lists more than  1,000 EV's on the road.  I'm
sure that the list is not complete.   As I recently began to do more
research, I was shocked (even angry) to find  out that electric cars were the
first cars ever made and put on the road,  not ICE's.  The technology is over
90 years old.  Hybrids are not  new either and are almost as old as the
electrics.  Most of the major  car manufacturers made EV's in the 1980's and
1990's.  And yet those  same companies are now trying to convince us that all
of this is new  technology and that it will take time to get them on the
road.  I  think it is pretty cool that there is one place where the average
person is  making more headway than the big car companies.  We are converting
ICE  cars, restoring existing EV's, they are affordable, and we are driving
them  every day.  I am a trained biologist, and environmental educator, and  I
had become pretty discouraged with peoples apparent lack of interest  in
environmental issues.  This is the first time in many years that I  am
inspired by what I see people doing with the EV's.  No more  bitching and
moaning, pointing fingers, and wanting "someone" to do  something.  People
are taking action, quietly and steadily.  When  the large auto makers are
finally willing to make cars that don't pollute  and are affordable for the
masses, I will be happy to buy one.  But,  meanwhile I think you all are
doing a great job.  Grass roots  movements do still exist.  Hurray for ya'll.

CS  Unlimited
Claire Sorenson
Ph: 512-689-5911
Fax:  512-282-9942

-----Original Message-----
From:  ausev-bounces at austinev.org [mailto:ausev-bounces at austinev.org] On
Behalf Of  Gil Dawson
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:19 PM
To: John Rumsey
Cc:  ausev at austinev.org; ev1-club at cco.caltech.edu
Subject: Re: [ausev]  A/C

Hi, John--

My apologies for my rant about none being  made.  I was irrevocably burned
when GM took my EV1 away with no  reasonable reason given.  The only reason
that makes sense to me is  that it would reduce oil company profits.  The
possibility that oil  profit might drive auto manufactureres' decisions,
coupled with GM's  arrogant silence when the question has been posed, gave me
an insight into  the tremendous power at play in this economic system.  It
eventually  became clear that automobile manufactureres are not responding to
the  demands of their customers, but to something else.  What that  something
else is, I do not know nor understand.  It is certainly  nothing like what we
were taught in Civics class.  The arrogance and  silence together engender a
feeling of powerlessness and betrayal I have  never before 
experienced.   I take consolation in the works of  Howard Zinn and 
Noam Chomsky, but neither they nor I have any clear idea  where this
political economy is headed.

Nonetheless, we have to  try.  Your ideas may well catch fire in a culturally
significant  way.  Let us hope so.

I completely agree that we as a culture  could use a large selection of
differently-fueled vehicles to great  advantage.  Oil will run out. 
There are a couple of important  transportation systems that EV-only
technology probably cannot supplant:  airplanes and interstate trucking.
Long-distance vacations in a personal  car may be another.

But for commuting and getting around the city --  and its freeways -- for our
daily routines, we need no oil at all.   Electric vehicles -- fueled entirely
from your wall outlet or your PV array  -- absolutely work.  It's stupid to
keep paying for oil when we don't  need it.

Yet we have no choice.  The start-up cost for a vehicle  manufacturer is
huge.  As an ante, you have to crush several fully  functional cars to prove
that they meet federal collision survival  requirements. 
Making and selling a new kind of car requires a huge  investment -- the size
of a Google or a PayPal.  That's why the Tesla  may have a chance.

In the interim, you can build your own or hire  someone to build it to your
specifications.  You just can't take  advantage of mass production to spread
the nonrecurring costs over many  units.  That would be against the law.

There are a dozen companies  who have made some beautiful machines. 
AC Propulsion has since 2003 made a  wonderful car -- the TZero.  It comes
with an internal combustion  engine-generator on a trailer you can hook up
for long trips -- pretty  close to what you have in mind
-- with computer-steered wheels to make  backing up a breeze:

http://www.acpropulsion.com/videos/backtracker.mov

But can you buy  it?  No.

What you can buy is a Prius or a Scion and then pay to  have them converted.
Or you can buy a souped-up golf cart, called a  "neighborhood" electric
vehicle.  But you cannot buy a production-line  manufactured freeway-capable
electric car anywhere in the US today.   Even though I and about 600 others
like me own one. 
And that's a darn  shame.

--Gil

At 11:43 P +0100 6/20/07, John Rumsey  wrote:
>Thanks for answering. There are people building experimental  vehicles 
>all around the world. I doubt any major automaker would  change, but I 
>am hoping to inspire some dreamer with enough money and  a machine shop 
>to actually build a car similar to my idea. Who knows,  if it works well 
>he may find backers and start making them. I want  someone to build a 
>car that will be competitively priced compared to  standard cars yet be 
>better on mileage, carry the same number of  passengers and get more mpg 
>of fuel. I think EC is more flexibly  fueled than IC and less polluting. 
>I had hoped the attitude of the EV  group would be flexible enough to 
>see that EV's are not perfect. It is  great that for over 90% of your 
>driving and EV works fine, but there  usually is a time when a person 
>wants to drive a long distance quickly  without having to buy an extra 
>IC car or rent one. My main problem  with the EV purist is that an EV 
>won't just drive for 1000 mi with  only 5-10 min stops every 400 mi like 
>an IC car. Even using an IC  engine instead of a steam engine to keep 
>the batteries charged would  improve mileage.
>
>Load up your EV truck and drive it to Canada  to fish.
>You'll make a lot more stops than if you used one like my  idea. Put a 
>12 hp Honda generator in the bed with a big fuel tank,  then try the 
>same trip. All I want is for people to think about other  ways of doing 
>things and to not be closed minded. I think EV's have a  definite place 
>in our future mix of vehicles, but so do other types. I  will keep 
>putting forth my ideas in the hope of finding someone who  will try them 
>and hopefully prove them to be  better.
>
>
>        ___________________________________________________________
>Yahoo!  Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. 
>Try it  now.
>http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/

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Chuck Simms

Director, North Austin M.U.District  #1
e-mail: charlesvsi at aol.com
Phone: 512-331-9630
Cell:  505-331-1237

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