[ausev] Electric energy transfer and storage limitations

Thu May 17 03:58:11 GMT 2007

The majority of the cars on the road today can be covered by ~4 battery sizes - 24, 24F, 65 and 78. Just one reason why any Walmart, Autozone or Sears can replace your battery within minutes from existing inventory.

I can envision a typical "gas station" stocking 50 to 100 batteries, less if the charging technology gets better. Remember that for the bulk of commuters, charging at home will be preferred, the exchange station is just for emergencies or extended travel.

Remember also this is something that the battery suppliers will lobby hard for standardization on. They don't want to supply umpteen different style batteries, they want to mass produce just a few main types. 

Is it a big investment? Of course! But think of it this way, it is a closed loop with a very short length. The batteries are monitored for performance and recycled when they reach end of life. Since there is no net loss of base material (lithium, cadmium, etc.), the recycle process should be fairly simple. After the initial investment, the lifetime of the base material is infinite. The per battery cost drops dramatically over the first few years as the demand for raw materials reflects how much recoverable material is already in the system. With just a little help from Big Brother in the form of tax credits for the initial investment, it becomes self sustaining in a very short time.

Just look at Ethanol to see how it works. Government pushes a questionable technology but since it doesn't create a big threat to oil (requires special vehicles, offers lower performance, etc.), the oil companies are glad to put the pumps in. You don't see them rushing to do the same for Biodiesel because unlike Ethanol, Biodiesel runs in any existing diesel application so it is a direct threat to oil. Similar performance with no modifications needed. Want to bet someone in an oil company didn't work hard to push the ethanol agenda over biodiesel??

Batteries don't pose a big threat but they offer the opportunity to appear "green" while still providing a revenue stream. It will be many, many years before electric of any kind poses a real threat to oil.

-----Original Message-----
>From: John Rumsey <beesidemeusa at yahoo.co.uk>
>Sent: May 16, 2007 7:44 PM
>To: jefoy at mindspring.com, AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion <ausev at austinev.org>
>Subject: Re: [ausev] Electric energy transfer and storage limitations
>
>A big investment in inventory. Then each auto
>manufacturer will design their car for a different
>make of battery as Big Battery and Big Auto have
>always done. Why don't all cars take the same style
>batteries now? Then too Big Oil will have to purchase
>battery companies for megabucks so they can keep
>raking the $ in. Much easier to gradually change over
>to biofuels made in the same refineries when the
>steam-electric hybrid is able to use any fuel they can
>produce.
>
>
>--- jefoy at mindspring.com wrote:
>
>> 
>> This is actually an idea I have had for a long time
>> and it offers something for the oil producing
>> companies as well.
>> 
>> The limitation to long distance travel is storage
>> capacity and charging time. One of the limiting
>> factors in EV design and more importantly, cost, is
>> the battery. 
>> 
>> Charging, even at high rates requires building a
>> fueling infrastructure, something that won't happen
>> until there is demand.
>> 
>> Imagine the concept of purchasing an EV without a
>> battery. For power, you sign a lease agreement with
>> a battery supplier (Exxon, BP, etc.) with the
>> stipulation that you will not abuse their battery
>> and in exchange they agree to supply you with a
>> charged battery at any of their affiliate "filling
>> stations". You pay an initial security deposit and
>> the cost of the electricity used to charge the
>> battery. 
>> 
>> The concept is the same as the "Blue Rhino" propane
>> tanks, you can have your tank filled or exchange it
>> for a full one (at a slightly higher charge than
>> just filling your own). 
>> 
>> The company that owns the battery has the incentive
>> to invest in state of the art charging and
>> monitoring equipment to maximize the useful life of
>> their batteries. They can track the battery history
>> through on-board data logging to record excessive
>> depth of discharge, number of charge cycles, average
>> lifetime, etc. The car owner has the option of
>> charging at home or the filling station exchange.
>> The car owner never faces the worry of having to
>> replace a bad battery pack unless they have to pay
>> for "damages" caused by abusing the leased battery
>> (prorated by the age of the battery). There might
>> even be "damage insurance" that covers the battery.
>> 
>> The companies that own the batteries have an
>> incentive to invest in improved battery technology.
>> "get more miles per charge with the Exxon
>> Maxicharge" or "feeling a little sluggish, try the
>> new premium battery from BP, more peak amps than any
>> competitor".
>> 
>> The infrastructure is already in place, many older
>> combination stations already need something else to
>> use the repair bay for. For just a little longer
>> than it takes to fill a big car (and what better
>> enticement to get you into the convenience store for
>> a soda and a snack), you get a fresh battery and are
>> on your way.
>> 
>> It is a win, win all the way around..
>> 
>> Jack Foy
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: gary <gkrysztopik at satx.rr.com>
>> >Sent: May 15, 2007 6:16 PM
>> >To: 'AustinEV News Announcements and General
>> Discussion' <ausev at austinev.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [ausev] Electric energy transfer and
>> storage limitations
>> >
>> >
>> >Imagine the connectors and cables that would be
>> required
>> >to zap 21,600 kw of electric energy into your car
>> for a minute.
>> >
>> >- why not swap out battery packs?  That could take
>> about a minute if the
>> >car and "battery station" were designed for it.
>> >
>> >gary
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >AusEV mailing list
>> >AusEV at austinev.org
>> >http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>> 
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>> AusEV at austinev.org
>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
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>
>
>
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