[ausev] Some thoughts about ROI

Fri Aug 8 23:52:42 GMT 2008

I've never bought a $75,000 sports car, so you must be talking about 
somebody else.

I do think of the future, but I feel that somehow, the "powers that be" have 
decided that people will pay more for things that are "green", maybe to feel 
better about themselves, give them bragging rights, whatever.  I call this a 
"green tax".

For example, watch the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?", and notice Stan 
Ovshinsky watching the rolls of solar cells being produced like it was a 
newspaper press.  Instead of selling this like many consumer goods for a 
cost plus a decent margin, he decided he only needed to come down just a 
little, and have a competitive edge.  The extra profit is the Green Tax.

I can buy an electric motor for my air compressor for about $100.  I can buy 
a nine-inch EV electric motor for $1100.  The rest is "green tax".

If we feel that we need to protect the planet from ourselves, then we need 
to elect politicians that will make it happen.
I lived in Houston in the early 70's, and I know what cars can do, and I 
know what laws can do, because the smog that used to envelope Houston is 
almost gone.   Maybe we just need to be careful about who we elect.  The 
current administration, and the current governor of Texas should be the 
focus, not me.  I drive a 10 year old Honda Accord.

I do what I can on the income I make, don't don't expect me to buy anything 
that I think has a 'green tax'.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carey King" <careyking1 at gmail.com>
To: <mbonard at gmail.com>; "AustinEV News Announcements and General 
Discussion" <ausev at austinev.org>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ausev] Some thoughts about ROI

>I find the ROI discussion slightly relevant to EV conversions given
> their up front cost and the multitude of reasons people have for
> pursuing them. For a general article on the 'ethics' of ROI and the
> discount rate that dictates the ROI, the following article is a good
> summary:
>
> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-ethics-of-climate-change
>
> carey
>
> Michael Bonard wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> If you look at ROI in everything you buy, you are ABSOLUTELY right if
>> you consider your _personal_ interest for the _short term_.
>>
>> However, we have to think about the future, and if we do not take
>> drastic measures now, we, as well as our children and grandchildren,
>> will be the victims of our present behavior.
>>
>> If you have children, you have certainly invested large sums of money in
>> their education: $100,000 per child is currently the lowest cost I can
>> find. We do that for their well being in the future. Were is the ROI 
>> there?
>>
>> Why not considering investments in energy independence and for the fight
>> against global warming _as an investment for our children, grandchildren
>> and future generations_? We do not need to look at the ROI here, we
>> cannot even define it!!
>>
>> For me, any other view is a complete contradiction: if I am willing to
>> pay for my children education to make sure that they have a better
>> chance of living a happy life and, at the same time, if I refuse to
>> invest in energy independence because of ROI, I am preparing for them a
>> future that will be terrible. This does not make sense!
>>
>> On the moral side, I find that ignoring the future generations is
>> horribly selfish.
>>
>> By the way, what is the ROI of buying a $75,000 sports car? ROI is an
>> invention of bean counters, and ROI has no consideration for human life.
>> ROI is a tool for businesses and corporations, not for every day's
>> personal life!
>>
>> We should think about the consequences of our actions, not only for
>> ourselves, but for the rest of the society and for the future. We need
>> to open our mind and grasp the big picture!
>>
>>
>> Michael Bonard
>> Washington DC
>>
>> By the way, ROI means "king" in French. We live in the country where ROI
>> is king!
>>
>>
>>
>> John Penry at TransTexasTrucks wrote:
>>
>>> I object to the "green tax" that companies charge.
>>> I buy Folgers by the pound, not Starbucks by the cup.  I look for value.
>>> I object to calling it "Windtricity" when it is the same electricity my
>>> neighbor gets, but I have to pay more.
>>> Now if they called it a "rate lock", I would buy it.
>>> So why should I buy it if it costs more?
>>> Is it up to me as a consumer, or is it up to our elected officials?
>>> These types of questions could go on forever, but the fact is, I DO look 
>>> at
>>> ROI in everything I buy.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Rush" <Rush at ironandwood.org>
>>> To: "Dustin" <ullearn at gmail.com>; "AustinEV News Announcements and 
>>> General
>>> Discussion" <ausev at austinev.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [ausev] Residental Solar Power
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'm way west of you all, but I find lots of interesting stuff on the
>>>> list...
>>>> besides I used to live in Austin, on Congress.
>>>>
>>>> I often wonder how people figure pay back on shoes, on washing 
>>>> machines,
>>>> on
>>>> cars... Why all of a sudden is there this big need to say it will or it
>>>> won't pay me back. Why does that become the motivating factor for so 
>>>> many
>>>> people? The need for people to justify an expenditure that puts oneself
>>>> ahead of the curve on responsibility seems pretty lame to me...
>>>>
>>>> Just my .06 kWh worth.
>>>>
>>>> Rush
>>>> Tucson, AZ
>>>> 2000 Insight, 62lmpg, #4965
>>>> www.ironandwood.org
>>>> www.Airphibian.com
>>>> www.TEVA2.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> AusEV mailing list
>>>> AusEV at austinev.org
>>>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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