[ausev] Some thoughts about ROI

Sat Aug 9 00:12:38 GMT 2008

Don't count on the US drop in use of fuel to do anything.  There was a story 
the other day that a New Jersey used car dealer was selling SUVs to people 
in other countries, and they were selling like hotcakes.

If we could get along without oil, I am sure we would.
But there are 400 people in my building, and we all have to come to work 
every day, and stay eight hours.
There are 6000 other people, and they all have to do the same.
So, in a city with 1.5 million in population, if the traffic was reduced to 
only "to and from work", the reduction in gasoline usage would be under 5%.

However, if the government was to use their 40 billion in oil tax revenue 
for the next three months to give rebates to purchasers of hybrid vehicles, 
we could make a bigger dent in the oil problem.  If they offered a bigger 
rebate for plug-in hybrids, that could do almost as much as T. Boone Pickens 
and his CNG plan.

If we, as Americans are addicted to oil, then that means we have to find a 
way to stop our consumption of oil. Asking the government to allow offshore 
drilling or to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is the same 
reaction a drug addict would use when told he must kick his habit. He will 
STEAL from his friends and relatives to get more dope.

Let's get busy, there are a lot of cars that need to be converted!

http://www.transtexastrucks.com
I decided to challenge the Automakers.
I will make a Plug in Series Hybrid Crew-Cab Pickup before Detroit does.
But if I lose this race, we all become winners.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Bonard" <mbonard at gmail.com>
To: "Carey King" <careyking1 at gmail.com>
Cc: "AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion" 
<ausev at austinev.org>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ausev] Some thoughts about ROI

> Thank you Carey!
>
> Very relevant article which I read in my Scientific American issue.
>
> In this article, they missed a huge issue, and it is hard for me to
> understand such an omission: the energy crisis is going to hit us in the
> US much earlier and much deeper (initially) than global warming. We are
> already seriously affected by the gas prices, and this is only a
> beginning, with no end in sight. Global warming will take decades to
> really affect our lives. Ironically, the worldwide shortage of oil may
> in fact reduce our carbon emission more effectively than all the current
> treaties!
>
> This article says that if the world economies grow, future generations
> will be richer than us. I would not bet on the assumption that world
> economies will grow significantly in the absence of inexpensive and
> widely available energy!
>
> Hence the urgent NEED to develop renewable energy sources (this
> ultimately means solar energy) and convert our entire ground
> transportation system to electric!
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> Carey King wrote:
>> I find the ROI discussion slightly relevant to EV conversions given
>> their up front cost and the multitude of reasons people have for
>> pursuing them. For a general article on the 'ethics' of ROI and the
>> discount rate that dictates the ROI, the following article is a good
>> summary:
>>
>> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-ethics-of-climate-change
>>
>> carey
>>
>> Michael Bonard wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> If you look at ROI in everything you buy, you are ABSOLUTELY right if
>>> you consider your _personal_ interest for the _short term_.
>>>
>>> However, we have to think about the future, and if we do not take
>>> drastic measures now, we, as well as our children and grandchildren,
>>> will be the victims of our present behavior.
>>>
>>> If you have children, you have certainly invested large sums of money
>>> in their education: $100,000 per child is currently the lowest cost I
>>> can find. We do that for their well being in the future. Were is the
>>> ROI there?
>>>
>>> Why not considering investments in energy independence and for the
>>> fight against global warming _as an investment for our children,
>>> grandchildren and future generations_? We do not need to look at the
>>> ROI here, we cannot even define it!!
>>>
>>> For me, any other view is a complete contradiction: if I am willing
>>> to pay for my children education to make sure that they have a better
>>> chance of living a happy life and, at the same time, if I refuse to
>>> invest in energy independence because of ROI, I am preparing for them
>>> a future that will be terrible. This does not make sense!
>>>
>>> On the moral side, I find that ignoring the future generations is
>>> horribly selfish.
>>>
>>> By the way, what is the ROI of buying a $75,000 sports car? ROI is an
>>> invention of bean counters, and ROI has no consideration for human
>>> life. ROI is a tool for businesses and corporations, not for every
>>> day's personal life!
>>>
>>> We should think about the consequences of our actions, not only for
>>> ourselves, but for the rest of the society and for the future. We
>>> need to open our mind and grasp the big picture!
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Bonard
>>> Washington DC
>>>
>>> By the way, ROI means "king" in French. We live in the country where
>>> ROI is king!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Penry at TransTexasTrucks wrote:
>>>
>>>> I object to the "green tax" that companies charge.
>>>> I buy Folgers by the pound, not Starbucks by the cup.  I look for
>>>> value.
>>>> I object to calling it "Windtricity" when it is the same electricity
>>>> my neighbor gets, but I have to pay more.
>>>> Now if they called it a "rate lock", I would buy it.
>>>> So why should I buy it if it costs more?
>>>> Is it up to me as a consumer, or is it up to our elected officials?
>>>> These types of questions could go on forever, but the fact is, I DO
>>>> look at ROI in everything I buy.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rush" <Rush at ironandwood.org>
>>>> To: "Dustin" <ullearn at gmail.com>; "AustinEV News Announcements and
>>>> General Discussion" <ausev at austinev.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ausev] Residental Solar Power
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm way west of you all, but I find lots of interesting stuff on
>>>>> the list...
>>>>> besides I used to live in Austin, on Congress.
>>>>>
>>>>> I often wonder how people figure pay back on shoes, on washing
>>>>> machines, on
>>>>> cars... Why all of a sudden is there this big need to say it will
>>>>> or it
>>>>> won't pay me back. Why does that become the motivating factor for
>>>>> so many
>>>>> people? The need for people to justify an expenditure that puts
>>>>> oneself
>>>>> ahead of the curve on responsibility seems pretty lame to me...
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my .06 kWh worth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rush
>>>>> Tucson, AZ
>>>>> 2000 Insight, 62lmpg, #4965
>>>>> www.ironandwood.org
>>>>> www.Airphibian.com
>>>>> www.TEVA2.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AusEV mailing list
>>>>> AusEV at austinev.org
>>>>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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