[ausev] Some familiar units to describe the HHO generator

[Erik]

I would really like to end the burned hydrogen topics on the EV list. Every
website I've seen promises fantastic gains that do not align with physics
and thermodynamics. I wouldn't be surprised if a small gain is possible,
especially during particular operating conditions. This website advertises
up to a 90% reduction in Green House Gas emissions. Again, maybe at idle,
when most of the fuel burned can be hydrogen. Otherwise a 90% drop in GHG is
equivalent to a 9X increase in fuel efficiency. If this was true everyone in
the country would do this in a heartbeat because the savings at current gas
prices would be amazing. This just isn't true.

All that being said, the current hydrogen generator topics flavor the list
with a "free energy" feeling. Electric cars are alternative, but there is
nothing magical about them. The simplicity is the best part!

Erik

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:09 AM, Marc Kohler <mkohler at austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Although this is starting to get slightly off topic, since the on board
> hydrogen generation craze seems to start happening and is in competition
> with the adoption of electric vehicles (not counting Fuel Cell Vehicles of
> course), anyone have any ideas on these guys?
> http://www.hydrorunner.com/
>
> I believe the guys at http://www.ronnmotors.com/ are using the system.
>
> Marc Kohler
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ausev-bounces at austinev.org [mailto:ausev-bounces at austinev.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Lasseter
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 1:53 AM
> To: AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion
> Subject: Re: [ausev] Some familiar units to describe the HHO generator
>
> On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Gil Dawson <Gil at gil.dawson.name> wrote:
> > thus:
> >
> >    The hydrogen gas extracted from a gallon of water
> >    can produce more miles driven
> >    than a pint of gasoline.
> >
> > That seems reasonable to me.  Does it seem reasonable to you?
>
> The burning of Hydrogen produces 286 kJ/mol...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen#Combustion
> Gasoline has an energy content of 44.4 MJ/kg...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Energy_content
> A mole of hydrogen weighs only 2 grams...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_%28unit%29
> Thus a kg of hydrogen has an energy content of 143 MJ/kg compared to
> gasoline's 44.4 MJ/kg.
>
> A gallon of water electrolyzed produces 0.40kg of hydrogen for 57MJ of
> energy content.  One pint of gasoline is 473cm^3, and the density of
> gasoline is around 0.74 g/cm^3.  So... a pint of gasoline weighs
> 0.35kg for 15.5MJ of energy content.
>
> So, you are correct that a gallon of water takes can produce more
> miles driven than a pint of gasoline.
>
> Granted, it would take 140MJ of energy to electrolyze the gallon of
> water at 100°C (for 0.4kg of Hydrogen)...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_electrolysis
>
>
>
> Or, stated another way, it would take 1.1 gallons of gasoline to give
> you the energy to electrolyze one gallon of water which would produce
> enough hydrogen to deliver the same energy content as 0.45 gallons of
> gasoline.
>
> Hence, you are better off burning the gasoline to power your car than
> to bother with any sort of intermittent step involving hydrogen or
> water.
>
>
>
> --
> TTFN,
> Brian "Lasso" Lasseter
>
>  · (512)736-1677 · AIM:digininja · ICQ:2238123 · MSN:azoreg ·
> "No Sane man will dance." -Cicero (106-43 B.C.)
>
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