[ausev] Austin EV startup

Sat May 31 15:50:09 GMT 2008

Actually it isn't off topic because hydrogen is a good source of 
electricity for the electric motor.
I'm working on an electric motorcycle and auto at the moment myself. And.
A lot of discussion here has been in regards to some form of generating 
power to provide electricity to charge batteries etc. ICE are of course 
a good potential depending on the fuel. As far as I'm concerned the 
cleaner the better. But if hydrogen on demand works and some claim it 
does then you may only need one battery in your electric vehicle instead 
of dozens and your range will be unlimited. Kind of scary. But if you 
want to use batteries, don't let me stop you. And of course if you don't 
want or can't believe it can be done I won't argue with you either. But 
so far from my experience it only takes 12 watts of power to begin 
extracting hydrogen from plain old tap water.
As far as I'm concerned whether hydrogen is used as a source of 
electricity to power an electric motor or as a source of energy to power 
an ICE that could do either should be of concern to all.

marv

Ian Ward wrote:
> I think you misunderstand my point, Marv.  This being the Austin 
> ELECTRIC Vehicles mailing list, I'm not comparing it to the efficiency 
> of gasoline, I'm comparing it to a pure electric drive.
>
> Sure, with hydrogen drive (HCE or fool cell) you are removing the 
> millions of point sources of pollution and there is something to be 
> said for that, but when you compare the energy it takes to power a 
> hydrogen car vs an electric car, you're wasting a lot of energy - the 
> pollution of THAT is certainly an argument.
>
> - ian
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:26 AM, m. edmund howse 
> <bytedawg at bytetamer.com <mailto:bytedawg at bytetamer.com>> wrote:
>
>     Efficiency???? How much energy do you think it takes, Ian, to
>     produce gasoline??? And how much pollution does this process create???
>     As far as hydrogen is concerned, I have built a hydrogen generator
>     and I cannot understand why
>     anyone would NOT consider this a feasible source of energy to
>     power an automobile.
>     Hydrogen burns clean, really clean, producing only water. And if
>     you integrate this concept into the efficiency quotient in the
>     reduction of pollution, I think the efficiency concept is not even
>     an argument.
>
>     marv
>
>
>     Ian Ward wrote:
>>     I am more interested in their plug-in electrics, which
>>     admittedly, don't seem to be the focus of their business. I was
>>     just wondering if they've attempted to work or consult with
>>     anyone in the vicinity.
>>
>>     I don't believe hydrogen is a viable energy storage medium
>>     because "it's the efficiency, stupid."  Although, when you are
>>     talking about super-performance cars, you get to hand-wave those
>>     kinds of rational arguments at will.
>>
>>     - ian
>>
>>     On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Gil Dawson <Gil at gil.dawson.name
>>     <mailto:Gil at gil.dawson.name>> wrote:
>>
>>         At 4:30 P -0500 5/30/08, Ian Ward wrote:
>>         Has anyone met/talked with these guys?  This is out of the
>>         blue to me...
>>
>>         http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html
>>         http://www.ronnmotors.com/
>>
>>         I haven't, but it's an interesting idea.  Hydrogen is
>>         expensive, relative to gasoline (or, at least it was when
>>         they first suggested fuel cell cars.)   But you only consume
>>         it when you want to go fast.  
>>
>>         Would you call this a hybrid?
>>
>>         If this idea sells then, if gas prices rise faster than
>>         hydrogen prices (quite likely, IMHO), I can imagine that
>>         eventually they could offer a series of aftermarket kits that
>>         would let the owner use more and more hydrogen and require
>>         less and less gas.
>>
>>         Ronn's taking a post-modernist approach to the transition.
>>
>>         --Gil
>>
>>         P.S.  The article doesn't say, but these cars will burn
>>         hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, right?  They're
>>         not talking fuel cell here, are they?
>>
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