[ausev] Austin EV startup

[Erik]

The problem with hydrogen isn't that it can't make electricity, it can. The
problem is there's no sensible and efficient way to get the hydrogen, and
then turn around and use it for energy. You can electrolyze water, but the
universe won't let you get energy for free. If you're making hydrogen from
water, I've got a dollar that says you're not actually improving efficiency.

Per Rob's comments, this is veering off topic for this list. If the hydrogen
is used to power an EV, then by all means, but any other uses of hydrogen
belong on another list.

Erik


On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:50 AM, m. edmund howse <bytedawg at bytetamer.com>
wrote:

> Actually it isn't off topic because hydrogen is a good source of
> electricity for the electric motor.
> I'm working on an electric motorcycle and auto at the moment myself. And.
> A lot of discussion here has been in regards to some form of generating
> power to provide electricity to charge batteries etc. ICE are of course a
> good potential depending on the fuel. As far as I'm concerned the cleaner
> the better. But if hydrogen on demand works and some claim it does then you
> may only need one battery in your electric vehicle instead of dozens and
> your range will be unlimited. Kind of scary. But if you want to use
> batteries, don't let me stop you. And of course if you don't want or can't
> believe it can be done I won't argue with you either. But so far from my
> experience it only takes 12 watts of power to begin extracting hydrogen from
> plain old tap water.
> As far as I'm concerned whether hydrogen is used as a source of electricity
> to power an electric motor or as a source of energy to power an ICE that
> could do either should be of concern to all.
>
> marv
>
>
>
> Ian Ward wrote:
>
>  I think you misunderstand my point, Marv.  This being the Austin ELECTRIC
> Vehicles mailing list, I'm not comparing it to the efficiency of gasoline,
> I'm comparing it to a pure electric drive.
>
> Sure, with hydrogen drive (HCE or fool cell) you are removing the millions
> of point sources of pollution and there is something to be said for that,
> but when you compare the energy it takes to power a hydrogen car vs an
> electric car, you're wasting a lot of energy - the pollution of THAT is
> certainly an argument.
>
> - ian
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:26 AM, m. edmund howse <bytedawg at bytetamer.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Efficiency???? How much energy do you think it takes, Ian, to produce
>> gasoline??? And how much pollution does this process create???
>> As far as hydrogen is concerned, I have built a hydrogen generator and I
>> cannot understand why
>> anyone would NOT consider this a feasible source of energy to power an
>> automobile.
>> Hydrogen burns clean, really clean, producing only water. And if you
>> integrate this concept into the efficiency quotient in the reduction of
>> pollution, I think the efficiency concept is not even an argument.
>>
>> marv
>>
>>
>> Ian Ward wrote:
>>
>>  I am more interested in their plug-in electrics, which admittedly, don't
>> seem to be the focus of their business. I was just wondering if they've
>> attempted to work or consult with anyone in the vicinity.
>>
>> I don't believe hydrogen is a viable energy storage medium because "it's
>> the efficiency, stupid."  Although, when you are talking about
>> super-performance cars, you get to hand-wave those kinds of rational
>> arguments at will.
>>
>> - ian
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Gil Dawson <Gil at gil.dawson.name> wrote:
>>
>>>   At 4:30 P -0500 5/30/08, Ian Ward wrote:
>>> Has anyone met/talked with these guys?  This is out of the blue to me...
>>>
>>> http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html
>>> http://www.ronnmotors.com/
>>>
>>> I haven't, but it's an interesting idea.  Hydrogen is expensive, relative
>>> to gasoline (or, at least it was when they first suggested fuel cell
>>> cars.)   But you only consume it when you want to go fast.
>>>
>>> Would you call this a hybrid?
>>>
>>> If this idea sells then, if gas prices rise faster than hydrogen prices
>>> (quite likely, IMHO), I can imagine that eventually they could offer a
>>> series of aftermarket kits that would let the owner use more and more
>>> hydrogen and require less and less gas.
>>>
>>> Ronn's taking a post-modernist approach to the transition.
>>>
>>> --Gil
>>>
>>> P.S.  The article doesn't say, but these cars will burn hydrogen in an
>>> internal combustion engine, right?  They're not talking fuel cell here, are
>>> they?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AusEV mailing list
>>> AusEV at austinev.org
>>> http://www.austinev.org/mailman/listinfo/ausev
>>>
>>>
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