[ausev] Austin EV startup
m. edmund howse
bytedawg at bytetamer.com
Sat May 31 22:36:43 GMT 2008
I think if you consider what it requires to fabricate batteries or
produce gasoline or any other technology that big brother can control
with impunity and compare that realistically to hydrogen production then
the concept of hydrogen as a source of power to generate electricity or
even power an ICE is one of the most beneficial and inexpensive sources
of energy available. The only problem I see with producing hydrogen is
that the government and corporate America don't want
just anyone to believe how simple it is to produce. Again, consider how
much energy it takes to produce gasoline. We don't get it for free, just
like we don't get batteries for free. Have you established how much
energy it takes to make 18 batteries for your EV? If you want to let
Corporate America control your lives then don't pay any attention to
those of us who say it can be done better and more efficiently. We'll do
it anyway. But people have to make the sacrifice of throwing away all
of those concepts that the government and Corporate America have
brainwashed them to believe. Hydrogen is not just for big corporations.
That is one reason I'm converting an auto and a motorcycle to electric.
I'm tired of them screwing with my comfort level.
I also am extremely concerned about the environment and I hope that
anyone who is interested in an EV isn't just interested because they
want notoriety, financial wealth or to control others lives.
This is a serious issue it is not one of those well it's not of concern
because I don't see how it relates things. It does whether you can
accept it or not. If I can make hydrogen with my simple
experimental setup with only 12 watts of power using plain tap water, a
setup that could seriously be refined, I can't see how anyone can ignore
the potential for their EV.Others have claimed a more significant
production and if I were anyone reading this post I would suggest paying
attention to the possibility of replacing their EV batteries or building
into it an incredibly exciting possibility.
Sincerely,
marv
Erik wrote:
> The problem with hydrogen isn't that it can't make electricity, it
> can. The problem is there's no sensible and efficient way to get the
> hydrogen, and then turn around and use it for energy. You can
> electrolyze water, but the universe won't let you get energy for free.
> If you're making hydrogen from water, I've got a dollar that says
> you're not actually improving efficiency.
>
> Per Rob's comments, this is veering off topic for this list. If the
> hydrogen is used to power an EV, then by all means, but any other uses
> of hydrogen belong on another list.
>
> Erik
>
>
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:50 AM, m. edmund howse
> <bytedawg at bytetamer.com <mailto:bytedawg at bytetamer.com>> wrote:
>
> Actually it isn't off topic because hydrogen is a good source of
> electricity for the electric motor.
> I'm working on an electric motorcycle and auto at the moment
> myself. And.
> A lot of discussion here has been in regards to some form of
> generating power to provide electricity to charge batteries etc.
> ICE are of course a good potential depending on the fuel. As far
> as I'm concerned the cleaner the better. But if hydrogen on demand
> works and some claim it does then you may only need one battery in
> your electric vehicle instead of dozens and your range will be
> unlimited. Kind of scary. But if you want to use batteries, don't
> let me stop you. And of course if you don't want or can't believe
> it can be done I won't argue with you either. But so far from my
> experience it only takes 12 watts of power to begin extracting
> hydrogen from plain old tap water.
> As far as I'm concerned whether hydrogen is used as a source of
> electricity to power an electric motor or as a source of energy to
> power an ICE that could do either should be of concern to all.
>
> marv
>
>
>
> Ian Ward wrote:
>> I think you misunderstand my point, Marv. This being the Austin
>> ELECTRIC Vehicles mailing list, I'm not comparing it to the
>> efficiency of gasoline, I'm comparing it to a pure electric drive.
>>
>> Sure, with hydrogen drive (HCE or fool cell) you are removing the
>> millions of point sources of pollution and there is something to
>> be said for that, but when you compare the energy it takes to
>> power a hydrogen car vs an electric car, you're wasting a lot of
>> energy - the pollution of THAT is certainly an argument.
>>
>> - ian
>>
>> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:26 AM, m. edmund howse
>> <bytedawg at bytetamer.com <mailto:bytedawg at bytetamer.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Efficiency???? How much energy do you think it takes, Ian, to
>> produce gasoline??? And how much pollution does this process
>> create???
>> As far as hydrogen is concerned, I have built a hydrogen
>> generator and I cannot understand why
>> anyone would NOT consider this a feasible source of energy to
>> power an automobile.
>> Hydrogen burns clean, really clean, producing only water. And
>> if you integrate this concept into the efficiency quotient in
>> the reduction of pollution, I think the efficiency concept is
>> not even an argument.
>>
>> marv
>>
>>
>> Ian Ward wrote:
>>> I am more interested in their plug-in electrics, which
>>> admittedly, don't seem to be the focus of their business. I
>>> was just wondering if they've attempted to work or consult
>>> with anyone in the vicinity.
>>>
>>> I don't believe hydrogen is a viable energy storage medium
>>> because "it's the efficiency, stupid." Although, when you
>>> are talking about super-performance cars, you get to
>>> hand-wave those kinds of rational arguments at will.
>>>
>>> - ian
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Gil Dawson
>>> <Gil at gil.dawson.name <mailto:Gil at gil.dawson.name>> wrote:
>>>
>>> At 4:30 P -0500 5/30/08, Ian Ward wrote:
>>> Has anyone met/talked with these guys? This is out of
>>> the blue to me...
>>>
>>> http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html
>>> http://www.ronnmotors.com/
>>>
>>> I haven't, but it's an interesting idea. Hydrogen is
>>> expensive, relative to gasoline (or, at least it was
>>> when they first suggested fuel cell cars.) But you
>>> only consume it when you want to go fast.
>>>
>>> Would you call this a hybrid?
>>>
>>> If this idea sells then, if gas prices rise faster than
>>> hydrogen prices (quite likely, IMHO), I can imagine that
>>> eventually they could offer a series of aftermarket kits
>>> that would let the owner use more and more hydrogen and
>>> require less and less gas.
>>>
>>> Ronn's taking a post-modernist approach to the transition.
>>>
>>> --Gil
>>>
>>> P.S. The article doesn't say, but these cars will burn
>>> hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, right?
>>> They're not talking fuel cell here, are they?
>>>
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