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<DIV>one last word on hydrogen, Don't forget it must be compressed and kept sub
zero cold to store it efficiently. </DIV>
<DIV>. And if it escapes and starts to burn, that's called an explosion, Who
wants this compressor plant in their back yard. The first explosion will kill
many, and will kill hydrogen as a public commodity. </DIV>
<DIV>Chuck </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 5/31/2008 5:38:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
bytedawg@bytetamer.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV><BR>Erik</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:50 AM, m. edmund howse
<<A title=mailto:bytedawg@bytetamer.com
href="mailto:bytedawg@bytetamer.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bytedawg@bytetamer.com</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Actually it isn't off topic because
hydrogen is a good source of electricity for the electric motor.<BR>I'm
working on an electric motorcycle and auto at the moment myself. And.<BR>A
lot of discussion here has been in regards to some form of generating power
to provide electricity to charge batteries etc. ICE are of course a good
potential depending on the fuel. As far as I'm concerned the cleaner the
better. But if hydrogen on demand works and some claim it does then you may
only need one battery in your electric vehicle instead of dozens and your
range will be unlimited. Kind of scary. But if you want to use batteries,
don't let me stop you. And of course if you don't want or can't believe it
can be done I won't argue with you either. But so far from my experience it
only takes 12 watts of power to begin extracting hydrogen from plain old tap
water.<BR>As far as I'm concerned whether hydrogen is used as a source of
electricity to power an electric motor or as a source of energy to power an
ICE that could do either should be of concern to
all.<BR><BR>marv<BR><BR><BR><BR>Ian Ward wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV class=Wj3C7c>I think you misunderstand my point, Marv. This
being the Austin ELECTRIC Vehicles mailing list, I'm not comparing it to
the efficiency of gasoline, I'm comparing it to a pure electric
drive.<BR><BR>Sure, with hydrogen drive (HCE or fool cell) you are
removing the millions of point sources of pollution and there is something
to be said for that, but when you compare the energy it takes to power a
hydrogen car vs an electric car, you're wasting a lot of energy - the
pollution of THAT is certainly an argument.<BR><BR>- ian<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 9:26 AM, m. edmund howse
<<A title=mailto:bytedawg@bytetamer.com
href="mailto:bytedawg@bytetamer.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">bytedawg@bytetamer.com</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Efficiency???? How much energy do
you think it takes, Ian, to produce gasoline??? And how much pollution
does this process create???<BR>As far as hydrogen is concerned, I have
built a hydrogen generator and I cannot understand why<BR>anyone would
NOT consider this a feasible source of energy to power an
automobile.<BR>Hydrogen burns clean, really clean, producing only water.
And if you integrate this concept into the efficiency quotient in the
reduction of pollution, I think the efficiency concept is not even an
argument.<BR><BR>marv<BR><BR><BR>Ian Ward wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV>I am more interested in their plug-in electrics, which
admittedly, don't seem to be the focus of their business. I was just
wondering if they've attempted to work or consult with anyone in the
vicinity.<BR><BR>I don't believe hydrogen is a viable energy storage
medium because "it's the efficiency, stupid." Although, when you
are talking about super-performance cars, you get to hand-wave those
kinds of rational arguments at will.<BR><BR>- ian<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Gil Dawson
<<A title=mailto:Gil@gil.dawson.name
href="mailto:Gil@gil.dawson.name" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">Gil@gil.dawson.name</A>> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>At 4:30 P -0500 5/30/08, Ian Ward wrote:</DIV>
<DIV>Has anyone met/talked with these guys? This is out of the
blue to me...<BR><BR><A
title=http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html
href="http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/05/26/daily29.html</A></DIV>
<DIV><A title=http://www.ronnmotors.com/
href="http://www.ronnmotors.com/" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.ronnmotors.com/</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I haven't, but it's an interesting idea. Hydrogen is
expensive, relative to gasoline (or, at least it was when they first
suggested fuel cell cars.) But you only consume it when
you want to go fast. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Would you call this a hybrid?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If this idea sells then, if gas prices rise faster than
hydrogen prices (quite likely, IMHO), I can imagine that eventually
they could offer a series of aftermarket kits that would let the
owner use more and more hydrogen and require less and less
gas.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ronn's taking a post-modernist approach to the
transition.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV>--Gil</DIV></FONT>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>P.S. The article doesn't say, but these cars will burn
hydrogen in an internal combustion engine, right? They're not
talking fuel cell here, are
they?</DIV></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>AusEV
mailing
list</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. <A title="http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002" href="http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002" target="_blank">Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>