I found with some more research that the cap energy equation ( E=(.5)(f)(v^2) ) produces an answer in joules. Maybe this is common knowledge. Anyway, I found that, <br><h2 style="font-weight: normal;" class="r"><font><font size="+1">65 610 joules = 0.018225 kilowatt hours<br>
</font></font></h2><br>I think this is the same answer that someone else came up with by dividing by 3600.<br><br>Jim<br><br><br>P.S. Happy New Year<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 1:45 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tomsmail@wtez.net">tomsmail@wtez.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>faradiddity?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>faradiddity!!!!?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>How 'bout "condensoriness"?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>:-)</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br><br>--- <a href="mailto:mseningen@austin.rr.com" target="_blank">mseningen@austin.rr.com</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Mike Seningen <<a href="mailto:mseningen@austin.rr.com" target="_blank">mseningen@austin.rr.com</a>><br>
To: AustinEV News Announcements and General Discussion <<a href="mailto:ausev@austinev.org" target="_blank">ausev@austinev.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [ausev] Ultracaps<br>Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 11:55:52 -0600<div><div>
</div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br>I think when I was looking at UltraCaps last summer they only had 2V UltraCaps ... so to get 200V<br>you needed 100 in series, but then that would drop your CAP by a factor of 100!<br><br>
You also have to worry about the resistance of 100 in series.<br><br>Having a 15V UltraCap with the same capacitance is also a huge win.<br><br>My project was to convert a sports car to ICE comparable performance at<br>a reasonable budget -- sort of having all 3 points of a triangle ---- so I had<br>
my work cut out for me :-)<br><br>I was thinking about having a hybrid pack that had some sort dual pack -- one for long term <br>energy and the other for short bursts for acceleration. AGMs and UltraCaps were<br>considered for the short bursts, and LiFePO4 for high density, longer range storage.<br>
<br>I didn't get very far.....<br><br>Mike<br><br>Gil Dawson wrote: </div></div></div>
<blockquote><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><pre>On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:09 A, Jim Watson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote><pre>I don't know very much about Caps,.. But I do know that they don't
take very long to store a charge,...
Jim
</pre></blockquote><pre>Turning it around, you might have put it, "They charge very quickly."
On Dec 31, 2008, at 8:46 A, Brian Lasseter wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote><pre>I prefer some of the Ultra-caps from Maxwell
Technologies. You can get nice 15V, 50F caps for $200. (In a form
factor about the size of two fists.)
</pre></blockquote><pre>15V is new, I think. The highest max voltage I had noticed before
was 2.
The energy stored in a capacitor rises with the square of the
voltage, so this is huge. A 15V capacitor can store (225/4=) over
FIFTY-SIX TIMES as much energy as a 4V capacitor of the same
faradiddity.
To compare some very rough theoretical maxima...
A 12V battery rated at 200Ah can store at most 12 * 200 = 2,400
watt-hours
A 2V 50F capacitor can store (0.5) * (50) * ( (2) ^ 2 ) = 100
watt-hours
A 15V 50 F capacitor can store (0.5) * (50) * ( (15) ^ 2 ) = 5,625
watt-hours
Now, that's getting somewhere. (Somebody please check my figures.)
On Dec 31, 2008, at 12:17 P, Jim Watson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote><pre>I just looked at the data sheet on a 500.0 F, 16.2 V cap. It says
that it was designed for car applications. Also this cap that I
looked at was around 5.75 kilograms = 12.67 lbs.
E = (.5)(500)(16.2)^2
I think that is: E=64,000 WH ??
</pre></blockquote><pre>I concur (I get 65,610 wh.) That's 10 times the Farads and a squeak
more voltage than Jim's example above, so it checks. I'm telling
you, this is new. I looked all over the web (OK, it was a year ago)
and 2V was the max I saw.
On Dec 31, 2008, at 12:17 P, Jim Watson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote><pre>What would charging this baby look like?? Would you just plug it
into the wall for less than a fraction of a second, and be ready to
go?
</pre></blockquote><pre>Not quite. They probably have a max amp rate through the connectors,
and you'd be limited by your power supply rating. But there's none
of that chemical coddling that batteries require. They'll probably
let you flow full current from zip to max. Recharging an UltraCap
can't be anywheres near so slow as charging batteries.
Contemplate these numbers for a minute. More energy than can be
stored in ten car batteries, in a device that weighs less than 13
pounds and takes but a few minutes to charge. What could you do with
that?
From: <a href="http://www.priusownersgroup.com/?p=2989" target="_blank">http://www.priusownersgroup.com/?p=2989</a>
</pre>
</div></div><blockquote><pre>[A]n ultracapacitor-equipped Toyota Supra HV-R coupe became the
first hybrid to win the 24-hour endurance car race held at Japan's
Tokachi International Speedway. The hybrid Supra finished 616 laps
of the 5.1-kilometer (roughly three\u0013mile) course—19 more laps than
the second-place nonhybrid Nissan Fairlady Z. "The Toyota that won
was able to deliver energy more quickly, accelerate faster, and use
braking generation more efficiently," says Kevin Mak, an analyst
with research and consulting firm Strategy Analytics and author of
a recent study that explores the potential for ultracapacitors to
complement and possibly even replace batteries in hybrid vehicles.
"The days of the large hybrid vehicle battery pack may be
numbered," he adds.
</pre></blockquote><div class="Ih2E3d"><pre>On Dec 31, 2008, at 12:17 P, Jim Watson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote><pre>"all of these products will perform reliably for more than one
million discharge-recharge cycles." What does that bit about one
million discharge recharge cycles mean?? Does it mean that one full
trip in you car completing 1 full charge of the caps is = to 1 out
of the million charges possible.
</pre></blockquote><pre>That is how I read it. Compare to a battery... you get, what?
Hundreds, thousands at most? Ultracaps are qualitatively different
on this point.
</pre>
<blockquote><pre>Damn that sounds great!!!
</pre></blockquote><pre>Yes, doesn't it?
So, what's their downside? Anybody know?
--Gil
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